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    The Great 1.8 Debate

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    Should items/money/etc be transfered over to a new world?

    [ 6 ]
    29% [29%] 
    [ 15 ]
    71% [71%] 

    Total Votes: 21

    Schlichtinator
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by Schlichtinator on Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:45 pm

    I would like it if we could take one inventory's worth of items. This would keep anyone from having a major advantage over another person, but also allow everyone to get a bit of a jumpstart. Money should be wiped clean, so that way everyone has to work for a bit to start up a town.
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    SupahTree
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by SupahTree on Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:49 pm

    If just an inventory's worth of items do get carried over perhaps there should be a limit on certain items? Example being only 6 diamonds can be carried over. Since the players who have been on longer will probably have a large stockpile of diamonds/gold etc. But if items do transfer I propose a limit be put on diamond, gold, iron, lapis, redstone, slimeballs and maybe a few others. Just so that players who have been on longer or have enough money to buy all these supplies won't have that advantage transferred over when they can put 40+ diamonds in their inv and just need to collect sticks and sell diamonds to be back where they were in the old map.
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    Ragnas
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by Ragnas on Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:31 pm

    Honestly I think it would be best if every thing was 100% new. Including any items. The best part about a new map is implementing all of the fixes and the better management obtained from the previous.

    It would be best to have better rules, and guidelines. Every thing Alec said I agree with 100%.

    As for what supah said for the cost to start up town and all. Maybe not 20k start up that is a bit much. (though I guess if everyone in your town minestatused a couple times it could be obtained) There really has to be guidelines for towns. An approval process is needed. Some servers require actual real currency, the least we could do is fill out an application and have strict guidelines and prerequisite before the creation.

    Also it needs to be enforced. Having rules for all of this means nothing if we let people by without following them.
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    SupahTree
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by SupahTree on Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:40 am

    About upkeep, you may want to revive the economy post a started a while ago, as at the bottom of page one Jefe summarizes the thread by saying that startup will be 20-30 k and upkeep will be ~500 (link below paragraph). The reason I think it should be that high is so it actually takes longer than a day to start a town. Depending on how much work one puts in, it could take FNG's up until Regular to actually raise that kind of money unless they have supporters that will donate money to start the town. Although I recall getting money rather quickly when I first joined. However, the startup cost and upkeep should reflect the economic aspects of the new map I suppose. If we make money more difficult to come by then I could understand lowering it some.

    http://republica.forumotion.com/t544-economy-on-republica

    So there's the link for that. As for moderator powers, it also raises the question about donator powers. Should donators with worldedit not be allowed to use it (even though you need the materials in your inv, it still makes a half-hour project turn into a few seconds)? If not then what perks could replace it in the new map? That also brings into question other donator powers such as //ascend, compass tp's, etc etc. And we can't forget creaturebox for easy slimeballs. Should all powers be changed to make the server legit?
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    henryryckeley
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by henryryckeley on Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:46 am

    Very good points Supah, I've already promised myself i'll not go in to this new map and just use worldedit to harvest a giant chunk of cobblestone and start selling it... where's the fun in that?

    Can Worldedit be configured to not place the destroyed blocks in inventory? (the blocks that have been cleared when using //set 0)
    I feel like you should have the ability to clear large areas easily, but not build or acquire items using these tools.
    and I'd be happy to trade in some commands for the command that tells you the amount of blocks in an area (//distr I think?) sometime I want to know exactly how many blocks I'll need to duplicate a structure I've made before.

    I don't think the movement commands (/ascend, /descend, /tp) could affect balance too much, I suppose it could be abused. If there's concern, maybe just allow teleport to players and compass jumping (since you first have to craft a compass)


    Last edited by henryryckeley on Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Ragnas
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by Ragnas on Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:27 am

    generaly its just rule that players that want to support the server by forking up the cash should have a little bit more of an advantage. The creature box thing should be removed. I think a large part of building a better economy would be to make things like slime balls, a rare item that can sell for a decent amount. Any command that would ever GIVE people items in any way should be removed as it would unbalance how legit the server is.

    It wouldent make sense if we said Mods and Admins cant spawn items but a donator could?

    Schlichtinator
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by Schlichtinator on Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:53 am

    We do need more slime balls.
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    SupahTree
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by SupahTree on Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:57 pm

    Well the //descend stuff I was just thinking people with the power could just descend randomly into a cavern and find ores a bit easier than normal players and then just ascend out when finished. No need for digging. And so the only thing that should be changed then is worldedit's ability that allows players with it to mass harvest materials and what not?
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    henryryckeley
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by henryryckeley on Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:06 pm

    /descend has a major weakness which kinda helps even the score: you have no idea what you're gonna end up in the middle of... there could be 4 creepers and a spiderjockey waiting for you (and it's usually pitch black dark when you descend)
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    Ragnas
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by Ragnas on Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:12 pm

    slime balls are rare and hard to get for a reason. Sticky Pistons are nice and all but it just makes them that much rarer. My GF played yesterday and managed to get 4 or so slime balls. True its not enought to make some super complex redstone monstrosity but this is not a creative server. This is a survival server.

    Honestly the ADMIN shop should only cary things that are not useful ie Gold, Lapis. Or things that are easy to come by ie Stone, Dirt. And really the only reason there should be an admin shop is to have some sort of cashflow outside of voting on minestatus.

    The idea is to really have to spend time, work, and build in order to get $$.
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    Desflurane
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by Desflurane on Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:28 pm

    I'm all for a transfer if my manor that I've spent an ungodly amount of time on can be transferred. I wouldn't care if I used worldedit to build it, but i'm stubbornly building it out of mined materials, so I really can't just throw it away.

    So yes, let's start a new map, but PLEASE help me to transfer this bigass building I'm working on. (Hope to finish the exterior soon!)

    Des

    P.S. I should add I don't really care about transferring my items I guess. It would be nice but if ppl are worried about unfair advantages I guess I can just try to use up what I have before the transfer. However, those suggesting that NO buildings even should be transferred are likely the ones that either use worldedit to build everything, or don't spend a lot of time or take much pride in their creations. That's fine if that works for them, but for those of us that spend a lot of time getting our creations just right and do them from scratch, it's hard to just throw it away.

    Having said all that, if this server isn't really meant to have large cool looking buildings, than I'm probably on the wrong server again. Sad
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    SupahTree
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by SupahTree on Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:36 pm

    Yeah henry, I thought about that. I was wondering what the probability of descending into lava/doom would be. I'm just trying to touch every issue that may come up so everything will be clear to others who may have thoughts reading through this.

    But so far the idea will be:

    -No spawning items
    -Admin shop sells easy to obtain stuff (there mainly to give new players a way to make money)
    -Towns harder to start due to higher startup and upkeep cost as well as an approval process to go through
    -Remove the ability for donators to obtain items from //set 0, other worldedit commands are still fine
    -creaturebox removed (no more three days of night D:)
    -wipe all items/money
    -wipe map (no town transfer)

    I might be forgetting some other stuff?

    Of course ultimately this is all up to Jefe. But it also seems that recently only Ragnas, henry, and I have been commenting lately. So who knows how other's feel about all this, haha.

    Using that list as a reference I'll list my perfect view of the server:
    -map wipe
    -item/money wipe
    -No item spawns
    -Towns much harder to start
    -More focus on economy
    -creaturebox taken away from donators (I'd only use it for three days of night-esque events Wink )
    -I don't really care about worldedit being removed for donators. I just see it as a means to save time on getting materials as long as it's within reason. Perhaps lower the amount of blocks that can be edited at once? ~40 perhaps?

    In closing, I don't mind a lot of things, I'd just like for a fresh start. I assume Jefe wouldn't add plugins if he didn't want his server run in such a way. I can kind of understand slimeballs needing to be rare, but at the same time I feel as though it wouldn't really matter. Slimeballs are like redstone to me, you can do cool stuff with it. But other than that it doesn't really serve a purpose. But I'll probably just wait to see what Jefe thinks about all of this. He will be the one with a lot of added work on his shoulders, adding/modifying mods/permissions; creating the new spawn town; altering the towny plugin; the list goes on and on.

    So I'm going to wait and see how he feels about all of these suggested changes.
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    SupahTree
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by SupahTree on Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:45 pm

    Maybe an exception could be made for you Des? But yeah, I know what you mean. When I made Winter's Peak it took me forever to dig all the dirt that I used to build up the exterior. I even took pictures of how large of an area I had to dig up XD. But I take great pride in my creations, I just know on a new map I'll be able to start with a fresh canvas and make something other than just a mountain town. I haven't made a large impressive building on the server yet, the town was my biggest project and henry helped a lot with the first few structures and subway system. Ddyyll helped to create the first bridge and effs came on later to help finish it.

    As for the items I doubt you'd be able to transfer that, as I can understand a building not giving someone an advantage, but items that could be sold/used for building/crafting could be advantageous.

    But yes, I do support large cool buildings Wink I hope you don't mind that I've stumbled across your manor before and took a look around it, and I have to say it's amazing. I don't see why there would ever be a ban on making large extravagant buildings on the server. It just shows the dedication and creativity of their artist, even more so when it's been done legitimately on a survival server. I know on my single player games I try to create large buildings and doing so in that setting is much more rewarding than doing it in a creative setting.
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    Desflurane
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by Desflurane on Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:00 pm

    I'm totally fine with no items transferring. Hoewever, there's no advantage whatsoever to a premade BUILDING transferring that I can see. If people are annoyed by having a large building on a fresh map, I'm happy to have it placed a long way from the spawn point. I don't care so much WHERE it is, I just don't want to lose it.

    Thanks for the discussion, it's what makes this server great.

    Des
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    SupahTree
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by SupahTree on Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:04 pm

    Yeah, I think the main concern was the transfer of an entire town, but one building should be okay I'd assume. But the best way to know is to ask Jefe Wink
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    Alec
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by Alec on Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:22 pm

    I disagree with an exception being made for Des. I realize that he spent a lot of time and effort on his manor but if we were going to make an exception to that what else would we need to excuse? Entire towns?

    Schlichtinator
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by Schlichtinator on Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:33 pm

    I mean, I single handedly built Carthage except for individual people's houses. I don't mind seeing it wiped. But Alec, it is a single house that someone spent an absurd amount of time on, and Des is willing to make as many exceptions as possible to keep the house. If it's letting Des keep the house, or losing Des, I think that's an easy decision to make as a community.
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    henryryckeley
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by henryryckeley on Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:51 pm

    keep in mind that the primary goal of this whole deal is to have fun... to see something you spent so much time and effort on disappear forever is not fun.

    Perhaps we have some "Valley of the ancients" or something where all the old masterpieces can be placed kinda like a museum. they would not be part of any town, so nobody has advantage, but people could visit and they could continue to work.

    We could set up transportation to the area and put up signs directing people to see the awesomeness.

    That's kinda how I see Capital City on the current map: it's filled with wonderful structures that just seem to have been abandoned. Its cool to go there and wander through the great landscape and check out the buildings, but nobody considers it part of any active nation or town.
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    Ragnas
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by Ragnas on Wed Aug 31, 2011 3:30 pm

    just by giving 1 exception, it gives license for any one else to have exceptions.

    And yes there is most likely a lot of work to be done on all the plugins in order for this to go smoothly. Luckly it seems there is going to be a bit longer before 1.8 comes out.

    Pretty much every thing Alec, and Supah has said I aggree with. As far as the ancient ruin thing goes, Honestly it would be a big eye sore to have this on a fresh map. As much as I would like to see the Colosseum and all of that on the new server. I honestly would rather just rebuild them. I know I could build it better a seacond time around, and I would rather it be that way.

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    Realirony
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by Realirony on Wed Aug 31, 2011 3:44 pm

    I pretty much agree with everything that rag and super said so whatever they been saying. I'm behind a completely fresh start. It'll add to the excitement
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    WaxCrayon
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by WaxCrayon on Wed Aug 31, 2011 5:51 pm

    I second this notion. Second and third it.
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    Alec
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by Alec on Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:10 pm

    The valley of the ancients would be great if people couldn't just strip their houses/buildings for materials if they wanted to.

    It needs to be a fresh start for everyone, not just one (or some) people.

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    SupahTree
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by SupahTree on Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:24 pm

    Alec wrote:The valley of the ancients would be great if people couldn't just strip their houses/buildings for materials if they wanted to.

    Like spawn protection just somewhere else? Though I'm not quite sure how I'd feel about a large area with a bunch of random buildings. Unless it was done in a tasteful way, though I'm not sure how that could be accomplished.
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    Aekely
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by Aekely on Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:07 pm

    ...Just wandering, do you think that since there will be ravines, there can be some type of house down in those? Because that would be pretty cool. Or I can make a river side village...that's also nice as well.
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    Desflurane
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by Desflurane on Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:10 pm

    From what I'm seeing everyone who wants me to just eat all the work I've done have been members of the this server a shorter time than me. I'd like to think that loyalty to the server counts for something. But I also understand that it's a free server, so I'm not owed anything by anyone, really.

    So, if MajorKane and jefe, people who obviously were on here before me and whose opinions I respect, want me to leave my house behind for the good of the server, I'll be happy to do so. It will be hard, but I'm thankful to them for the help and support from the beginning, and for just in general running a great server.

    I've already been through one new map change and a server rollback in which I lost a lot of work. That's nothing compared to what I'll lose in hard work this time. I understand that I could just build on single player, but it's no fun if others can't enjoy it. And I still fail to see what advantage I'll have over anyone else, my manor isn't made of diamond, FFS. And btw, how in God's name is it faster to strip a house for materials than to mine it from a raw map? And why would I destroy something I've made that I clearly spent a lot of time with? Help me make sense of your position.

    I'll wait for the above folks to weigh in. Without them there's no server. The opinions of the rest don't carry the same weight with me, sorry.

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