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    The Great 1.8 Debate

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    Should items/money/etc be transfered over to a new world?

    [ 6 ]
    29% [29%] 
    [ 15 ]
    71% [71%] 

    Total Votes: 21
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    jefe323
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by jefe323 on Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:33 pm

    Des, I can move your house for you (I was actually thinking of your place specifically when I mentioned being able to move things across)
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    Ragnas
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by Ragnas on Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:24 pm

    Not going to lie, your build is amazing. Its just a bit unfair to the other members to see there builds get lost. Maybe its just your reward for having one the best builds on the server.
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    Alec
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by Alec on Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:43 pm

    Desflurane wrote:From what I'm seeing everyone who wants me to just eat all the work I've done have been members of the this server a shorter time than me. I'd like to think that loyalty to the server counts for something. But I also understand that it's a free server, so I'm not owed anything by anyone, really.

    So, if MajorKane and jefe, people who obviously were on here before me and whose opinions I respect, want me to leave my house behind for the good of the server, I'll be happy to do so. It will be hard, but I'm thankful to them for the help and support from the beginning, and for just in general running a great server.

    Hi, I'm one of the people whose opinion you do not respect. I've never seen your manor, I don't know how huge and/or amazing it is, and I don't care. I am trying to say that nobody should have an exception made or everyone should. The only way your house can be fairly transferred is if everyone's house is transferred (or we follow SupahTree's approach for the area of older builds, which, by the way should be located far from the spawn). If you don't respect other peoples' opinions based on their join date I have no respect for you.

    If houses are being moved what prevents me from spending all of my money on diamond and put diamond blocks all over my house and asking it be moved?...
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    Realirony
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by Realirony on Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:54 pm

    I (one of the newer members I suppose) actually am down for letting Des move his house over. I can understand making a hole in the rules for one will allow for others to run through it but I would hope that other people wouldn't try to bend the rules to try and screw the system over for their own greed.
    I can see that Des spent alot of time on his creation and actually has pride in it and would lose quite a bit of work on it. Its one thing if some kid builds an entire completely square house out of diamonds or rare minerals and says to Jefe "alright, move this thing over there" and then strips it for the materials. I would hope that type of behavior would be painfully obvious before any sort of move was even thought of. Most people weighing in on the subject are fine with starting fresh and rebuilding except Des (who from what I can tell has spent more time on one structure than anyone). Moving a work of art is different in my eyes than moving an economically biased structure for the sole purpose of stripping once its moved.

    TL;DR == I'm down for Des getting his art moved over. and I stress art as art is meant to be seen or heard and not stripped for supplies once moved.

    Other than that, I'm still behind Supah, Rags, Henry, and the gang for the clean slate start-over

    Schlichtinator
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by Schlichtinator on Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:27 pm

    Realirony wrote:I (one of the newer members I suppose) actually am down for letting Des move his house over. I can understand making a hole in the rules for one will allow for others to run through it but I would hope that other people wouldn't try to bend the rules to try and screw the system over for their own greed.
    I can see that Des spent alot of time on his creation and actually has pride in it and would lose quite a bit of work on it. Its one thing if some kid builds an entire completely square house out of diamonds or rare minerals and says to Jefe "alright, move this thing over there" and then strips it for the materials. I would hope that type of behavior would be painfully obvious before any sort of move was even thought of. Most people weighing in on the subject are fine with starting fresh and rebuilding except Des (who from what I can tell has spent more time on one structure than anyone). Moving a work of art is different in my eyes than moving an economically biased structure for the sole purpose of stripping once its moved.

    TL;DR == I'm down for Des getting his art moved over. and I stress art as art is meant to be seen or heard and not stripped for supplies once moved.

    Other than that, I'm still behind Supah, Rags, Henry, and the gang for the clean slate start-over

    Nailed it.
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    SupahTree
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by SupahTree on Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:35 pm

    Alec: That's henry's idea not mine ;D. But if it's just Des' work then no need Very Happy.
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    Desflurane
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by Desflurane on Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:40 pm

    Alec wrote:
    Desflurane wrote:From what I'm seeing everyone who wants me to just eat all the work I've done have been members of the this server a shorter time than me. I'd like to think that loyalty to the server counts for something. But I also understand that it's a free server, so I'm not owed anything by anyone, really.

    So, if MajorKane and jefe, people who obviously were on here before me and whose opinions I respect, want me to leave my house behind for the good of the server, I'll be happy to do so. It will be hard, but I'm thankful to them for the help and support from the beginning, and for just in general running a great server.

    Hi, I'm one of the people whose opinion you do not respect. I've never seen your manor, I don't know how huge and/or amazing it is, and I don't care. I am trying to say that nobody should have an exception made or everyone should. The only way your house can be fairly transferred is if everyone's house is transferred (or we follow SupahTree's approach for the area of older builds, which, by the way should be located far from the spawn). If you don't respect other peoples' opinions based on their join date I have no respect for you.

    If houses are being moved what prevents me from spending all of my money on diamond and put diamond blocks all over my house and asking it be moved?...

    I didn't say I don't respect your opinion at all. It just doesn't hold as much weight as those who own and run the server. I don't think that's inappropriate. The fact that you haven't even seen what I'm trying hard to save makes me respect your opinion even less. I'm not making this just for me, I'm making it for the server. I enjoy very much looking at other people's work on this server. You, clearly, don't take the time.

    I understand your point about unfair advantages. But it's not a very good point if you'd have taken the time to see what I've been working on.

    Thanks to others for seeing my point of view. I'm hoping jefe will transfer my house a long ways from the spawn. I have no desire to throw off anyone's enjoyment of a brand new map. I should also mention that I basically don't participate in the server's economy. I don't run a shop, and I rarely if ever buy anything from shops. I prefer to mine materials for myself. I have no plans to participate in the new map economy either. So I won't be impacting anything by having my work transferred.

    I think this is enough B.S. about the topic. Again, thanks to those that see my point of view.

    Des
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    WaxCrayon
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by WaxCrayon on Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:12 am

    I just don't see what unfair advantage Desflurane would be gaining though, sure he's getting a building moved, but what use is a building really, after the first couple of nights we'll all have buildings. The only difference is, Desfluranes will be of a higher standard. It's not like he's going to strip it all down for the materials. I think as long as he doesn't build a town around it, and it's far enough away from spawn that he doesn't gain an advantage that way, it's all completely fair.

    Saying that, I'd say me dt546 and NoIceAge are now amongst the longest serving members of the server, playing through what will be out third map reset, and each time it just adds more fun because you can either go forth and improve what you were doing previously, or just go for a whole new tact, which we have done each time. It's definitely worth it, especially now that there are so many more things you can incorporate into your town.
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    Ragnas
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by Ragnas on Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:37 am

    Just think of it this way. Every one on the server will start the game with nothing.

    Except you.

    With that being said, I really dont care at this point. Like Wax said, as long as you dont build a city around it, it wont matter. That and as long as its located far enough away from spawn.
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    Alec
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by Alec on Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:40 pm

    Desflurane wrote:
    I didn't say I don't respect your opinion at all. It just doesn't hold as much weight as those who own and run the server. I don't think that's inappropriate. The fact that you haven't even seen what I'm trying hard to save makes me respect your opinion even less. I'm not making this just for me, I'm making it for the server. I enjoy very much looking at other people's work on this server. You, clearly, don't take the time.

    I understand your point about unfair advantages. But it's not a very good point if you'd have taken the time to see what I've been working on.


    What Ragnas said. If you want to be the only person on the server who starts off with a monstrous building then go ahead.. I haven't seen your creation and frankly I don't care about it anymore. The point is that even if it is the greatest house in the history of Minecraft it (in my opinion) shouldn't be moved into a NEW map.
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    henryryckeley
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by henryryckeley on Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:15 pm

    Aside from all that, the 1.8 update is sounding awesome!!!

    http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Upcoming_features
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    Realirony
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by Realirony on Thu Sep 01, 2011 3:57 pm

    Yea. All negative feelings aside 1.8 is going to rock like rocks in a box. I watched the PAX vid again of Notch explaining everything and it looks like its going to add a ton of depth to the game and make the whole experience a bit newer and refreshing. The new battle system has me stoked as well as the change in biomes. Def looking forward to it. He mentioned in the vid that it would be out "in a couple weeks" after PAX, so hopefully the 1st half of it (since it'll be two separate patches) will be up for download soon.
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    jefe323
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by jefe323 on Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:57 pm

    Jeb has set a soft date of September 8th, though I have no idea if that is realistic

    zozartore
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by zozartore on Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:20 pm

    i like the idea of a new map but i want to keep my stuff and money i dant realy care about the buildings we can just make new ones.
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    Ragnas
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by Ragnas on Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:30 pm

    yeah it dose look really great! cant wait to see it.
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    Aekely
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by Aekely on Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:26 pm

    I don't know what i'm more excited about....the combat or just exploring! (Mushroom biomes ftw. :O MUSHROOM KINGDOM)

    xXProdigalXx
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by xXProdigalXx on Sat Sep 03, 2011 1:12 pm

    just a few quick questions.

    Can we strip NPC villages for items?
    Will Endermen be able to move blocks?


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    SupahTree
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by SupahTree on Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:16 pm

    Since it seems people are still interested in voting on this I'll revive this thread so others can comment on it.

    -wipe money
    -economy revamp so money holds more power and buying/selling items actually is a difficult decision
    -wipe items (maybe restricted inventory carryover?)

    My thoughts, what are yours?

    Also don't forget what Prod asked up there.

    Schlichtinator
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by Schlichtinator on Mon Sep 05, 2011 6:26 pm

    Yes to endermen, unless it's destructive in a way similar to creepers. No to stripping NPC villages. If that's even enforceable.
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    Realirony
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by Realirony on Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:11 pm

    ----wipe money-----(yes, if we are starting a new economy, having money and lots of it in reference to some people will give them monopolies over the new economy)


    -----economy revamp so money holds more power and buying/selling items actually is a difficult decision-----(yes, money right now is an after-thought. I actually go mine all the materials I need rather than buy it because they are either gouged price wise, or the mats are easy to find in the wild. Selling things is just kind of a way to get rid of crap I don't need. At the moment, money holds no value either in and of itself or as a relation to anything else. To make money have more weight we need to make house plots more expensive so that selling items for the cash is needed and as such you take a huge chunk of someone's finance away so they have to work back up to that money again. Also making towns redic expensive for one person to start will make fewer towns appear and more towns appear with more residents in them. As a side thought, perhaps make town applications have to have 3-4 signatures from residents who wish to live within the town so that we know the town will not just be built and then whither and die.)

    -----wipe items (maybe restricted inventory carryover?)----- If we are going to wipe money so that one person does not have a leg-up in the new economy we probably need to wipe items as well. I realize that all of those mats that we've worked so hard to get will be painful to get rid of but we can mine them out of the ground again and easily. If we allow items to be transferred we would have to spend more time "policing" the items brought over to make sure that the correct items are brought, plus we would have to have some sort of bureaucratic panel that would decide what is ok and what is not ok to transfer over item-wise to the new server. All of this will probably be more of a headache than its worth with some people stating that a particular item won't affect economy or gameplay while others note that it will. If we make every single person start out on a clean slate with money, items, and everything else then no one will have a case to bitch about anything that is not "fair" in their eyes.

    Schlichtinator
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by Schlichtinator on Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:24 pm

    I think we should make towns VERY expensive to start. It is way too easy at the moment. And it feels like people aren't very invested in the towns they join.
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    Ragnas
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by Ragnas on Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:28 pm

    I thought we voted No on any transfers at all...

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    SupahTree
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by SupahTree on Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:39 pm

    Polls are still open Rag. But it's basically going to happen unless some major turnaround happens. But yeah. Schlicht towns are going to be around 20-30 k to start. Think it should be higher?
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    Realirony
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by Realirony on Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:06 pm

    20-30k for a town sounds pretty good. Maybe make them an even 50k if need be. so if 5 ppl chip in, thats 10k per person. and its high enough to stop every tom,dick, and harry from starting a town but low enough to make a team of guys able to start one.

    Also, we may want to have an "up-keep" cost that each resident has to pay, like a tax, per week or month, to live in the town. Or that the owner of the town has to pay per week or per month to keep the town (if not paid and then defaulted on then the server owner could revoke the town and remove it). and the owner of the town (mayor) can come about this weekly or monthly up-keep by any means necessary, whether that be his own pockets or by taking a tax on his residents. This system would add a bit of a weight on money since you would have to grind out a certain amount of money per week/month to keep living where you are living. I think it would add some value to the money you gather by selling items.
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    SupahTree
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    Re: The Great 1.8 Debate

    Post by SupahTree on Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:24 pm

    We talked about the upkeep costs in the economic section. I think most people were okay with it being 500-750 a day I think. With a slight increase as the town gets larger. Although I'd like it higher, to force people to work hard to keep a town. But with it being 500-750 it's low enough to where mayor's aren't forced to tax their residents if they don't want to, but high enough to where they need to keep an eye on their town bank.

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